The difference between FAITH and presumption? If so explain?
Do you have a life experience to share where you have presumed something while thinking you were using your faith?
Consider the lilies of the field… Matt 6:28
Consider the lilies of the field… Matt 6:28
The difference between FAITH and presumption? If so explain?
Do you have a life experience to share where you have presumed something while thinking you were using your faith?
thedailylily.com 
This very interesting Needles. I look up the definition in Websters.
Faith – unquestioning belief in God.
presumption – an overstepping of proper bounds.
So if we presume something instead of waiting on God faithfully, we are stepping over God for us to do what we think we should do. God’s Will vs. Our Will. This is my understanding.
“So if we presume something instead of waiting on God faithfully, we are stepping over God for us to do what we think we should do. God’s Will vs. Our Will.” Good point, CF.
I know a guy that wanted a new car. He said he had faith and believed he could afford one even thought his bank account said NO. He went and bought one …and, needless to say his bank account still says NO.
Hum, do you think this guy had a presumption, Gary?
I see I made my point.
Yep.
Maybe we have received a promise from God about something and we may think we are exercising faith to appropriate or obtain the promise when we are actually just presuming because we are acting or operating out of our own understanding (not God’s wisdom) and out of time and order.
We may presume God is going to answer one way when in His sovereign wisdom He will answer another way, differently.
In reading Numbers 14:39-45 there’s an account of people who missed their opportunity but are now trying to obtain a promise in a way that is not God’s way or timing. Presumption is serious sin I think.
“When Moses told all of this to the People of Israel, they mourned long and hard. But early the next morning they started out for the high hill country, saying, “We’re here; we’re ready—let’s go up and attack the land that God promised us. We sinned, but now we’re ready.” But Moses said, “Why are you crossing God’s command yet again? This won’t work. Don’t attack. God isn’t with you in this—you’ll be beaten badly by your enemies. The Amalekites and Canaanites are ready for you and they’ll kill you. Because you have left off obediently following God, God is not going to be with you in this.” But they went anyway; recklessly and arrogantly (some translations say ‘presumptiously’)they climbed to the high hill country. But the Chest of the Covenant and Moses didn’t budge from the camp. The Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in the hill country came out of the hills and attacked and beat them, a rout all the way down to Hormah. “
Sounds serious to not know my boundaries, my rights and/or the law. Maybe not having reverence for God would be Presumptuous and Faith would be yielding to and knowing there is a sovereign God. Piety without doctrine?
Summary, being foolish or being wise!
It happened after this that David inquired of the Lord, saying, “Shall I go up to any of the cities of Judah?” And the Lord said to him, “Go up.” 2 Samuel 2:1. David was already anointed to be King…….and the door was wide open for him to walk into royalty……..but still He inquired of the Lord what he should do instead of assuming. How often do we really inquire of the Lord??????
assuming…adjective archaic….arrogant or presumptuous. , arrogant, having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance or abilities….
Not much, if any room for faith in God in this!
Good point Brian. How often do we inquire of the Lord?
That’s a good question, Brian. And then when we do inquire and find the answer are we obedient to do what He says. Stubborness of our own hearts vs humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God.
Am I understanding the difference between faith and presumption??
Faith: Hearing from and having complete confidence in God alone
Presumption: Hearing from and having complete confidence in oneself
That seems like a pretty clear comparison to me Needles that paints a stark contrast to illustrate.
In 1 Kings 13 there is a story about a prophet which has often concerned me. I will write the footnotes from the NIV Application Bible as it is lengthy 13: 7-32 This prophet had been given strict orders from God not to eat or drink anything while on his mission. He died because he listened to a man who claimed to have a message from God, rather than to God himself. This prophet should have followed God’s word instead of hearsay. Trust what God’s Word says rather than what someone claims is true. And disregard what others claim are messages from God if their words contradict the Bible.
This reading shows how dangerous it can be to rely on presumption that here is a fellow prophet who professes to be a prophet of God enticed him to listen to him even though the man had been given a different instruction and he heard it from God and knew it to be truth. Scary! How many including myself have listened to someone we trusted or thought would do right and they didn’t get it from God nor did I God’s instruction on it?
Hebrews 11:1 NIV says, “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” If we continue to read Chapter 11 of Hebrews we will see many Biblical exams of Faith. Verse 6 is a big one, “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
When we make decisions and strive to follow the voice of God we need to know God and understand who He is and have a reverential fear: Hebrews 12:28-29 is a good description of this: “Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our ’God is a consuming fire.’” This reverence and awe is exactly what the fear of God means for Christians. This is the motivating factor for us to surrender to the Creator of the Universe. Good article to read to help; “http://www.gotquestions.org/fear-God.html
I’d like to add the footnotes for verse 6, in Hebrews 11. Read with me: “Believing that God exists is only the beginning; even the demons believe that much (James 2: 19,20). God will not settle for mere acknowledgement of his existence. He wants your faith that leads to a personal, dynamic relationship. But does faith make sense, really? Do you believe because faith makes sense, or because faith doesn’t need to make sense? Some Christians think people cannot understand God and should not try. Others believe that nothing true is irrational, including true faith. The truth is, God gave us minds that should be developed and used. To ignore intellectual growth is to live a stunted and naive life. God wants our trust and faith, even while we ponder and wonder about so many matters mysterious to us. Even so, we do not believe in a void nor leap into the dark. Faith is reasonable, though reason alone cannot explain the whole of it. So use your mind to think things through. But leave room for the unexplainable works of God. Sometimes we wonder about the fate of those who haven’t heard of Christ and have not even had a Bible to read. God assures us that all who honestly seek him–who act in faith on the knowledge of God that they possess–will be rewarded. When you tell others the Good News, encourage them to be honest and diligent in their search for truth. Those who hear the Good News are responsible for what they have heard (see 2 Corinthians 6: 1,2).”
“just because I will it so does not make it so…”
On reading I Kings 13 noted above:
From my reading and studying I Kings 13, I see that it was about eating and drinking, flesh, self and lustful desires, eating and drinking and being merry. If we hear and know truth and another tries to influence us to do otherwise I am certain it is our own selfish motives that would cause us to do it. There is something in it for us. Among others, money, position, a name, a diamond, a car, sex, a new job or just plain wanting to be recognized for something we are not. This old story seems to never ever renew itself. All about eating and drinking in the wrong places with the wrong people. Another way of putting it, “letting our hair down, ie behave in a free or uninhibited manner.”
It is true that when we inquire of the Lord we need to be sure that it’s HIS voice that we are hearing in response and not the enemy’s or our own surmisings. Jesus said,”My sheep know my voice and another voice they will not follow.” That to me suggests our own voice, too.
I spent over an hour in quiet time thinking about faith vs. presumption. I began to realize how many times, and they are too numerous to count, where presumption was my middle name. I am realizing more each day that Faith equals Commitment. And, commitment gives Purpose and Power. I made a commitment of faith to Jesus Christ and I agreed to a life of disciplines.
James 1:13 says that when we sin we had better not say that we were tempted of God because God is incapable of being tempted by evil. And neither does HE tempt anyone. There may be trials and testings, BUT EVERY PERSON is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his/her own evil desires, passions and lusts. And even if we dabble or entertain an evil or even inappropriate though,t that is asking for it. Because the evil thought will lead to conception and that conception gives birth to the sin and when that sin matures, takes us over and becomes a habit it leads to death either physical, spiritual or BOTH.
Not sure what ‘greasy grace’ Note: (greasy grace can be found on CF’s blog on ‘Love Is’, comment by MG) is as haven’t heard that term but from many scriptures it seems God’s grace is purposeful and not to be taken lightly. Though a defintion of it is unmerited favor, it looks to me that God gives it expecting a return on His investment.
I found Hebrews 12:28, 29 helpful in understanding it ferom God’s perspective:
“Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.”
What does ‘greasy grace’ mean? It even sounds disrespectful? It that what it means?
If I had to give my thoughts on presumption I would have to say it is a mind trip. Like thinking I can live and do whatever I want whenever I want regardless of God’s laws. I would come to believe that God’s love would take care of it. In order words as I said above I think Faith calls for a life of disciplines. Presumption would call for no disciplines.
My understanding of ‘greasy grace’ is that because of God’s graciousness to us, some Christians continue in their sin or defend or excuse their sin by referring to or calling upon God’s grace and this era of Grace. But John says in 1John, “If we say we have no sin, refusing to admit that we are sinners, we delude ourselves and are led astray and the Truth is not in us and we are walking in darkness.”
So I believe it means one continues in the sin that so easily besets and EXCUSES it and even denies it (see quote of John) using the premise of GOD’S GRACE.
I am learning more and more that the deeper one gets into the Christian Walk, the older in the Lord one gets, the more one must be called to accountability. In His message to the church at EPHESUS , Jesus, the glorified Alpha and Omega, addresses the church in this manner. He speaks of all the fine and good things the church has done. He commends them for their works and good deeds and the things that He approves. BUT…even though they have worked and labored and have kept themselves from the evil of the world, still the Lord has something against them. He laments that they have lost or abandoned the fiery , passionate, intimate love that they first demonstrated when they first were saved and delivered by the Word of God and His Church. But not just the church at Ephesus is Jesus putting forth a just complaint. He addresses the church at Pergamum. He commends them for holding fast to His Name and not denying the faith. YET…He says He has a few things against them. And on and on, Jesus Christ speaks about and to His seven churches. He praises them for the good things they have done but he strongly admonishes and warns them that although they have been faithful in many things, yet the spots, wrinkles, miscalculations, misinterpretations , failure to discern in the Spirit the enemy’s workings in the church, are being held against them in justice and judgment. He says, that whom He loves He rebukes, admonishes and warns. He call for repentance among His own people, His Church(es)….the Body of Christ.
Discerning from the deeds and actions that Jesus commends them for, it does not seem as though these are baby Christians but mature, seasoned people of God. Yet He has to rebuke, admonish, discipline them because they have not kept the Word of God fully. Our pastors are striving with all their hearts to bring their sheep into accountability and recognition of the what we are speaking from our mouths and of our actions In accordance with the Full Word of God which they preach. We need to humble ourselves before the mighty hand of God and repent of things we should have learned long ago but do not recognize because we are blindsided by the lament and insidiousness of the world’s voice. Dr. Charles Swindoll , in his new book says that we have ‘accommodated the spirit of the world.’
So, no matter how long we have been in the faith, we must be accountable. There is no free lunch and the only real and true freedom comes from OBEDIENCE to the Word and being accountable for every word , deed, action and thought. That is just the way it is. Jesus said it and that is the truth that nothing can change.
To whom should I be accountable? To God and to spirit man. If I try to trick myself or even others into thinking I am being pious, I still have to stand before the Lord God and give an account. And everything will be exposed. EVERYTHING… Sooner or later. Humility NOW Is much better than Humiliation THEN.